I think you should... (one suggestion per idea)

decay is too draconian , items need to be repairable , give us createable , repair kits and allow engineers to repair gear also for crystite

i feel , again that to make our recently created items un-repairable( you call it irrepairable) is ridiculous and hostile to players. it needs to be changed and reconsidered. otherwise you are taking all our effort to better our avatars and telling us that it is futile to even try because your time is spent on creating those items is futility and by extension why even play this Firefall if it is going to be this frustrating and experience. the game has much to offer , but this is a key issue and an achilles heal , if you make our created items flimsy and useless after two combat actions ,why should we make them at all? why don't you just sell the crap in batches of a dozen? gear is intrinisic to the players effectiveness in combat , and overall game play experience. to have us constantly crafting gear you take away from the feeling of accomplishment and progression in game, due to experience earned new gear will be necessary by default , is all this gear made in Taiwan in a sweatshop ? or maybe Mexico or Mainland China? why is it all so brittle and stock gear is indestructable? what is our incentive to keep on your treadmill? We play games for enjoyment not to be a slave to your system of repair and expense, most of us already have employment , if I have to make a job out of a game Ill go play something less punishing for succeeding in the process of gameplay.

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  • UrthemielUrthemiel commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

    Another thing i recently noticed - the rate at which we lose durability is nuts, half the time which i should be using to enjoy myself shooting things, i am instead stuck repairing my gear.
    No fun, that. Imo it's best to decrease this dura loss rate dramatically.

  • UrthemielUrthemiel commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

    Oh and red5, just in case you guys were thinking to cash in on players forced to spend beans to speed up the creation of replacement gear because of this repair pool bs... it's a terrible idea too first because you can make few replacement gears one after another and second because no1 really is going to spend beans on that speed up crap and third that kind of crap can get your playerbase annoyed is all it can do and when player is annoyed he leaves... to a game like defiance for example yous ain't the only fps around you see.

  • UrthemielUrthemiel commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

    I say remove that decay BS completely, todays generation of sugarboys a.k.a. "gamers" can't handle that much pressure OR engineer/bastion/electron are all gearheads right so they should be able to say... restore the repair pool of the gear (their own obviously and the gear of other frames as well) and offer this repair service to everyone else and get paid for that too, yea that would be an interesting solution.

  • PhantomShadowPhantomShadow commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

    this is a great idea and they need to reduce the rate of decay mid level items are almost as expensive as actually buying a high lvl one in the long run and make using or building them worthless waste of time.

  • AinooAinoo commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

    I agree with a lot I see here. We need repair kits that casual gamers can afford. And don't make this game pay2havefun by making them buyable with real money only.

    To anyone comparing this system to other MMOs saying "it is comparable to getting new gear from a new dungeon, outdating your old gear", please think of this: Imagine if in WoW, or whatever is your favorite MMO, you were told you have limited number of attempts/time to get your new gear, and if you can't complete the dungeon, you drop back one gear tier and have to do the PREVIOUS dungeon you *already* cleared, to regain the gear that was lost to a timer, to try the new tier dungeon again. Assuming you don't fail in that too (not everyone is equally skilled). And even if you do get the "top tier" gear and get bored of the game and don't play, how would having that top tier gear on a timer change it? And what about those players who don't play much or lack skill and are stuck on a "lower than top" tier with their gear, maybe having gotten one item that feels like winning a lottery to them after long hours of hard work for many days - should they be forbidden from wearing it? Because it's the same thing, if they wear the best gear they have in attempts to upgrade it and fail, or just to have easier time in general while hunting stuff to improve... you get the point.

    Also no matter what MMO is in question, if people in top tier gear plan to go do slightly easier but still challenging things to hunt something with friends, just for fun, or to help them, or to grind for your own "supplementary needs" (other characters, profession progress etc) that most MMOs have, I seriously doubt many willingly downgrade gear to play through other, already seen content with more challenge. In other games you may have increased difficulty and added flavor through other means (2-man dungeons, timed runs), but probably not through forced gear downgrades.

    Personally I spend a lot of time gaming, but if a friend asked me "Hey, please come help me? I can't kill this somewhat challenging boss no matter how hard I try, and I also need this material from this area to gear up. You have already done this place a hundred times, but you could use things from here too, for something slightly less important activity or just for fun! Just be sure to wear worse gear than you could because your good gear is on a timer..." I would probably have to decline... I have helped less progressed/skilled people do big *challenging* battles I've done dozens of times myself before but with this system I don't feel like grinding materials for "alts", vanity items, backup stock of consumables, or such either. Nope, can't find the fun right now.

    Bottom line:

    If there were big goals in the game right now, I *might try* to achieve something until I fail and have to start grinding just to keep myself geared well enough to TRY. But right now there is no point in progressing towards good gear with hundreds of hours of "hard work" because after it all I can't wear the amazing set of gear I've worked for, to have "well earned easy fun" with friends like in other games, and Firefall too long ago... (them double large meld thumps). The most time consuming goal that keeps players playing in MMOs after everything else is done, which for someone who plays a lot happens in a month or two in a *completed* game, is gearing up and then being powerful without living on a timer. Even hardcore modes don't compare, because in them you lose from your own mistake, not game mechanics.

    And as some have already commented, I too might not have a problem with this system if crafting was easy and *FUN*, and a part of active economy between players. Material suppliers --> manufacturers --> gear users, which of almost everyone will automatically be suppliers, who enjoy spending time on-line in good gear having fun, unavoidably getting supplies they want to get rid of.

  • WolfwaysWolfways commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

    I like the decay, but do think that gear does decay a little too fast. I hope i never get to make a great piece of gear and find that i'll never have to replace it eventually...for better or worse.

  • scalebluescaleblue commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

    They need to increase the rarity on every level of quality for modules/items.

    Make repair pools infinite/non existent.

    Change the durability on all items to reduced at half rate.

    Items in this game all break too easily, i use stock because not only do i have items for about 2 hours before they break. But the stat benefits most of the time are very little.

  • PhantomShadowPhantomShadow commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

    I personally think the concept of "decaying" items is stupid and that if they want to create a system where "durability" is a issue they should make it a set rate of decay and have it be able to be repaired in frequency of the "quality" of the item.The more you paid in in-game currancy of any kind, XP or WHATEVER you used to buy/trade for it, you should have to repair it accordingly.

    With cheaper items they should be of a "cheaper" value and need repair accordingly.

  • PrecedencePrecedence commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

    In WoW, gear just constantly gets outdated by adding new instances and new expansions. Durability is pretty much the same thing... If you get the best in slot gear in WoW, (or mostly any other MMO) that doesn't mean you'll "have" it forever. eventually it's outdated and useless... I don't see how removing gear via durability is worse.

  • dsiidsii commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

    i say remove the repair pool altogether... or make it so repair costs scale with item level if R5 thinks people should have a reason to keep playing/grinding... or make losing repair pool temporary in a way that you have to spend a reasonable amount of resources/rexp/whatever to restore the lost repair pool

  • OnlineGamingOnlineGaming commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

    This problem goes to a common problem for Firefall in that no definitive data is identified to base the variables used by R5 when implementing their coding solutions.

    For example, R5 should define what it believes is a reasonable Cy per hour earn rate. This can be determined by playing the game and or talking with folks who play it now to determine how much they are earning and how they are earning it.

    Once you have a fair number for Cy per hour (taking into account ARES vs Thumping, etc and coming up with the most reasonable number), you would then need to look at the numbers of how long it takes to find all of the resources, components and / or whatever else may be needed to craft an item and define a reasonable amount of time.

    This will give you a base earning potential Cy and replacement timeframe Hr that could be used as baselines (or more so worst case cost scenarios).

    With those two numbers, the cost of repairs (assuming no deaths) for the MOST EXPENSIVE repair should never exceed the base earning potential Cy. In addition, the time from full repair pool to no repair pool at zero cost should likely be less than the time to replace the item.

    The real problem with decay in my opinion is that the variables used to define it were taken from something the R5 developers normally sit on instead of from realistic data. I believe that decay would be a much smaller issue if the variables selected were in tune with realistically achievable numbers.

  • TortlienaTortliena commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

    [FoxKeegan]:"People gotta stop being so materialistic--other games have trained you to covet your little l33t items that you never lose and can't break. That's not the way this game works--it's not even how it works in the real world."

    Games aren't always designed to follow the real world rules :p. If I wanted to play a FPS simulation, I would go on the Arma series, which is far more realistic than Firefall is. Plus, in real life, weapons last more than one month.

    As far as I see, there is two main problems with the durability system in place:

    -First, some people don't like the concept at all. It doesn't allow you to keep your favorite items. And you may feel that you lost the progression you made so far (And you lost it, in some way). It suits very well for some players, the thrilling sense that you need to constantly remake what you've done before, but more item/progress sensitive ones will very easily find the idea repulsive.

    -Then, it changes deeply the experience depending on what type of player you are, as MsAligned wrote. A solo player, a turtle or casual one, or beginners will find the game very unbalanced and annoying, because they will see their equipment worn out before they can take the fun out of it. Players in teams, paying and expert ones will think more probably that the concept is interesting, but that it is not enough important in order to really matter.

    This is why game designers generally don't add finite repairability, unless if the items are identical (no item sensitive complaining) and very high durability (no progress sensitive complaining) or the game is a simulation (reduces the player target to people that are looking for that concept).

    And this is also why I really think that Firefall would really benefit from NOT having that. It's a MMOFPS/TPS that doesn't claim to be the most realistic simulation -Arma, DayZ... do it a lot better in that way-. Moreover, attracting a slightly larger player base would be good for the game and gamers (->more lively gameworld). I don't mean remove the durability system though, just make it INfinitely repairable in some kind of way. Doing just that would mostly erase the issues raised since its implementation.

  • avalon1kavalon1k commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

    Durability is an issue. We simply lose too much to fast. It need to be cranked back about 50%.

  • MsAlignedMsAligned commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

    FoxKeegan, you completely miss the point, maybe you have a large group to run with and put multiple thumpers at a time, and suck a location dry in 10 minutes, then somebody like me comes along, a mostly solo player, and I get almost nothing, but wear out my equipment at the same rate you do, the problem is I gain resource at less that a tenth of the rate you do. In the end I am wearing out equipment faster than I can gain the resources to replace them. The death spiral I am in, eventually I have nothing.

  • FoxKeeganFoxKeegan commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

    System works just fine for me.

    You're in an apocalypse. You're struggling to survive. Things break. Ya gotta make new ones.
    If you're basing your entire feeling of progression in the game on whether or not you're making new gear, ya gotta change the way you're thinking. Your equipment changes. Your character doesn't. Things come and go--you get stronger.

    We have molecular printers we're powering. It's faster to make new gear. People gotta stop being so materialistic--other games have trained you to covet your little l33t items that you never lose and can't break. That's not the way this game works--it's not even how it works in the real world.

    Besides, what are you going to do with all those resources you're thumping for anyway?

  • Mad1Mad1 commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

    Wonderful idea .. except they are trying to get RID of all the original founders not keep them playing.

  • checolchecol commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

    So if a gun gets destroyed by shooting, why don't vehicles die too? I mean if a gun only has a set number of uses why are bikes infinite? They are made with the same machines and same power source as some of the guns, so why don't they lose health over distance? Or for that matter why do they recharge without taking any abuse and come down new and shiny over and over? This seems to be a glaring oversight to me. I have several rifles and guns one of which is at least forty years old and works perfectly, but my ten year old car is falling apart. I know that a game is different from reality, but does it have to be this bad? The price difference is about the same as it is in reality. I can't seem to get ahead. Missions don't pay enough crystite to pay for how fast my equipment is degrading, and thumping, while fun, gets old.

  • BlazinwillBlazinwill commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

    I brought this up over 9 months ago when I quit playing because of the gear breaking issues. I still see nothing has changed for the better... only for the worse, so I'll be back in 6-12 months to see if maybe Red5 actually wants to make some money... via getting people to play their game. I agree completely with your analysis btw.

  • AskaretAskaret commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

    A simple idea that can be used so you have time to think all the stuff and balance it out would be to give extra repair pool to higher tier items.
    t1 -> 5000
    t2 -> 8000
    t3 -> 11000
    t4 -> 14000
    As addon the crafting components that add repair pool could give it in %.
    basic one +25% ( I think it costs 1500 C or something like that )
    second one 50%
    third 75%
    last one 100%

    End result would be that if you have money and time you can end up width t4 gear that has 28000 repair pool . This would give the high end players the kick to run around and do stuff and not fear to end up quick in their underwear ;)

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